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Broker’s Best: MacGregor 65 Pilothouse
The 65 has that low racer’s coachroof and twin foresail rig too, but with the addition of a pilothouse. The pilothouse is a unique cruiser’s touch for this racer that will probably be appreciated in the Pacific Northwest during the wetter winter months.
Anecdotally, MacGregor Yachts once reported that a 65 averaged 10.5 knots for 1,150 miles in generally upwind conditions and hit top speeds of over 25 knots during a Los Angeles to Puerto Vallarta race. Those are some pretty great numbers.
There’s currently a 1990 model with an inboard Yanmar diesel engine listed from Oak Harbor, Washington-based Bristol Yachts Northwest. If you’re looking for an arrow of a boat that should be able to take home regatta wins for a price less than a new J/Boat half its size, the MacGregor 65 Pilothouse beckons. Listed at $149,000.
Norris Comer
Norris Comer is an award-winning writer and the former Managing Editor of Northwest Yachting magazine. He was raised in Portland, Oregon and got his BS in Marine Science at Eckerd College in St. Petersburg, FL where he lived aboard a 1973 Catalina 27 before moving to Washington and an Albin Vega. He has worked as a commercial fisherman, wandered aimlessly around the world, studied oil spills, and was a contestant on the Norwegian reality TV show "Alt for Norge."
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- Sailboat Guide
Macgregor 65 Pilot House
Macgregor 65 Pilot House is a 64 ′ 11 ″ / 19.8 m monohull sailboat designed by Roger MacGregor and built by Macgregor Yacht Corp between 1988 and 1995.
Rig and Sails
Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.
The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.
Classic hull speed formula:
Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL
Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL
Sail Area / Displacement Ratio
A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.
SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3
- SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
- D : Displacement in pounds.
Ballast / Displacement Ratio
A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.
Ballast / Displacement * 100
Displacement / Length Ratio
A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.
D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³
- D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
- LWL: Waterline length in feet
Comfort Ratio
This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.
Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )
- D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
- LOA: Length overall in feet
- Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet
Capsize Screening Formula
This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.
CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)
This second version of the MACGREGOR 65 was more of a performance cruiser than the earlier, more racing oriented model. It features a raised deckhouse with an inside steering station. The interior was completely redesigned. The hull was significantly reinforced and it was also available with a winged keel.
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- The Real Story On The MacGregor 65
[We just got a great comment by Lawrence Trimingham from Bermuda, on our post on a late season crossing in a MacGregor 65, that we thought was so interesting that we are putting it up as a post. Lawrence has literally lived with the boat “man and boy” since his father bought Bermudian Escape 20 plus (?) years ago. He not only addresses the boat’s suitability for the crossing planned by the original questioner, he has also provided a really good overview of this very interesting cruising boat.]
I own a MacGregor 65 and have lived and sailed on her extensively in the eastern Caribbean and have done several passages between the US and Bermuda.
I also crewed on a MacGregor 65 during a storm in the Gulf Stream, with recorded winds of 60kts. No damage occurred. During the storm, the crew took the opportunity to see which angle of sail suited the vessel and crew the best and found that at times it included running off with bare poles. The MacGregor is directionally very stable at speed and does not ‘tow’ a quarter wave like many older heavy displacement sailboats.
Early reefing and minimal sail are the key to comfortably sailing the Mac 65 in a strong wind. As long as this rule is followed, the boat is very steady due to the long waterline and easily driven hull design. It is easy to handle and sea-kindly on all points of sail.
Some other information about the MacGregor 65
The plusses:.
- Due to the long waterline and lack of overhang, the tendency to pitch either underway or at anchor is very low.
- The sailplan is small enough for me to handle on my own.
- Motoring is both fast and fuel efficient.
- One can steer from both inside and out.
- One hears at times that the MacGregor 65 is flimsily built, (usually from folks who have not even been on one!). Maybe this is because they were designed by Roger MacGregor of the 26ft trailerboat fame. However, if you ask any Mac 65 owner, you will find them generally a very happy lot, including when it comes to boat strength and integrity, especially for the production model with the pilot house (those built after 1987). The structural bulkheads are all solid glass and in certain areas more than 1.5″ inches thick. I know as I have had to drill through several. The hull is also reinforced in the bulkhead areas.
On the minus side:
- The original 12volt wiring installation was poor.
- The original lifeline stanchions were too short.
- The finish trim and furnishings inside the boat are basic when compared with most boats even 20 ft shorter.
- I would replace the opening ports.
- While these boats can be found in northern latitudes I am not sure how warm they would be, since there is no built-in insulation. Just a solid fibreglass hull and an interior liner.
As great as these boats are, boats like John and Phyllis’ tough and heavy Morgan’s Cloud are more suited to being hurled about for days in icy northern storm force winds with the odd iceberg floating about!
Would I cross the Atlantic between August and November? No, not even in a boat like Morgan’s Cloud , because of the risk of very nasty extra-tropical storms between the northern East Coast and Europe.
I opt for comfort, and would come through Bermuda and the Azores in May/June – crossing to Bermuda from the Chesapeake to minimize exposure to Gulf Stream storms.
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Thank you John and Lawrence for this very good review of the McGregor 65. I have had an interest in this boat because of the long water line. The interior lack of warmth (in many ways) held me back in considering this vessel as a second home. But for a quick passage maker I am sure there are few equals except perhaps the Dashew’s boat, but that is a completely different price range.
Thank you for putting people straight on the MacGregor 65. I am so tired of reading scathing reviews of them written by people who have never been aboard one. While you covered allot of the positives you did not mention that there is safety in speed. I owned a Morgan 51 Out Island, and while she was a very comfortable 3 bedroom 2 bath home on the water she sailed like a brick. The MacGregor may not have the interior volume but she will literally run off and leave the Morgan in her wake. To me this relates to the safety of a vessel in that storms can be avoided instead of riding them out. The 1995 MacGregor 65 I now own is the fastest and most sea kindly boat I have ever had the pleasure of sailing, comfortable at anchor or even motoring with a quartering sea. There are forward and aft watertight bulkheads and the hull is solid fiberglass…no core! I asked a Tartan rep at a boat show once if their hulls were built using foam or balsa cores and when he realized that I was not a fan of cored hulls stated that they were only cored above the waterline. When I gave him a “duh” look he realized just what he had said and even commented that he had “never thought of it like that”! MacGregor 65’s are eligible for the American Bureau of Shipping’s +A1 rating and for Coast Guard Certification. Those that have been Coast Guard Certified have been rated to carry 49 passengers. To be eligible for this rating the vessel must pass a stability test.
I could not agree with you more: speed is a huge contributor to safety. Not only does it get you out of the way of bad weather, but I’m absolutely convinced that fast boats are, as a general rule of thumb, safer in heavy weather.
Having said that, good speed offshore is not, in my experience, just a function of weight: There are some fast heavy and thin boats too. But when the interior starts to govern the design, like in your old OI 51, seaworthiness and comfort (when offshore) suffer.
I’m not big on cores as a general rule, either. Although some great and strong boats have been built with Airex, so it depends on the core and the skill of the builder.
I have a Big Mac also and recently sailed it from Seattle to Hawaii and back. The boat is well built except for the rudder post housing design system. The rudder tube is fiberglass and after time it wears and the rudder posts become wobbly, causing steering to bind. A quick repair in Hawaii was an epoxy pour in the tube which held up for just under one year and the wobble is back. I am planning to haul out again and this time put in a new tube (maybe bronze) with bearings at top and bottom, putting the wear on replaceable bearings not the tube. It is important to reef early in these boats, they actually go faster with less sail, we found out several hundred miles north of Hawaii when we got overwhelmed with a quick rise in wind with the 130 genoa up. The electric autopilot was on and kept rounding the boat down and so we broached before we could turn off the autopilot to round up, and put the boat on its side and the spreaders in the water. We took water in the cockpit and open windows for about 10 long seconds, then the boat slowly rounded up into the wind and came back up. So, really it is a fairly idiot proof boat, and the 10 year old standing rig stood the loads. It is fairly cold in nw without heat.
Heard that they are ( Mac Gregor ) considering reintroducing this 65 design again when things ( ECONOMY ) are better. With improvements. Not sure as to what improvements those would be. I hope this is not just talk. The source is close enough to be believable. Look forward to them after the falling sky folks settle down after 2012 passes much like 2000 did. Any one know more about the reintro please share. If you don’t know for sure ( please don’t ).
The only two things I wish my “Big Mac” had were a bow thruster and a fully enclosed cockpit. I can live without both, just not as comfortable. I will say that I’m just as happy not to have wood down below. We took on water when an air conditioner valve broke and I was just as happy to only have to deal with wet carpeting and not warped floorboards. She’s stark but she’s easy to clean. Though I will say one of the big improvements Roger MacGregor could make would be a less convoluted bilge system. Tell him to give me a call before he starts production— I might be able to think of a couple more things too.
I’ve also got a Big Mac, 1994, and have noticed a bit of rudder slack. How did you (Chris) sort this out? Did you have to haul the boat or could you repair in the water? I haven’t yet had a good look at the rudder stock. Another question. My genoa has expired and I’ve been quoted about $8000 for a new one. I can get a used, but good, one for about $600. But it would need a lead to the deck further forward than the old high cut foresail, ie a genoa track and carriage. Has anyone fitted a track and is the deck strong enough to take it?
Hi, reply to repair of rudder tube, now underway in boatyard replacing with new tube and thordon bearings at bottom and top and then reglassing in new tube.
I would be cautious about where you attach a sail to the deck. Yes, a new genoa is expensive, but given the relative price of the boat better to go with new sails that are made for the boat then cut corners. I did get a used spiinaker – ayssemetrical drifter, for $500 and have flown it without a pole like a super big genoa.
I am interested to buy a Big Mac. During my research I noticed that there was a design change in that the engine was moved back towards the stern together with the prop. Was this done to provide better prop wash to the rudder and improve maneuverability in tight quarters? I read in one blog a story about a Mac 65 that ended up against the pilings because it didn’t turn quick enough. I suspect a bow thruster would help as well. Any comments in that regards are welcome.
My understanding is the engine was moved to rear for more peace and quiet in the main cabin, its noisy with the engine in the middle of the boat.
I owned a 92 Mac 65 for ten years. I loved that boat. Since then I’ve had 2 Hallberg-Rassys, but neither have been as fun as the Mac 65. For the price, I’m not sure another boat compares. Some are trashed out, and not worth consideration, but if an RV interior is ok, and you like awesome sailing (and fast motoring), the Mac 65 is the perfect family cruiser (on steroids).
By the way, you can’t put a bowthruster on a Mac 65 as the hull in the forward 15 feet of the boat is not deep enough, and further back the turning moment of the thruster would reduce its effectiveness, not to mention requiring a 10 foot long tube.
There’s one advertised in Mallorca with a retractable bow thruster which would be the answer to the depth question.
I own a 1990 65 Mac and single handed sailing is a breeze. More to the point, it is impossible to match the ride this vessel delivers – speed / stability. All being said, if you buy a good 65 Mac hull and machinery you can refurbish the interior better than new for about 20K US, try that on a vessel with a lot of wood work. My time spent on board involves little maintenance other than cleaning.
Here comes the big hit, the Big Mac looks hot and it is. When you fly by other sailboats crewed by 4+, working their sails to crank out another 1/2 knot and you are laid back single handed with out sail concern reality sets in, what a machine. Roger MacGregor exceeded all of his expectations. In fact, most vessel hulls of this exceptional purity combined with balanced rigging happen with focused luck. Roger had huge yacht building experience, massive focus on design and a little help from the sailing gods.
Mine is not for sale.
A few more comments on the Big Mac, I dumped the a/c system, the water maker and all the other excess maintenance equipment. Now I have a simplistic blue water cruiser with average annual maintenance costs of $3,500. I use acrylic on the hull that lasts about a year pending on the latitude.
Now I have a pure super fast sailboat that can achieve 25 knots down wind and cruises under power @ 10 knots in a big seas better than any power yacht @ 1.7 gallons of fuel / hr.
My Mother 80 and Father 88 are not marine oriented. I took them out for a run under power and a mariners warning was announced on channel 16 . Sure enough, with in 1/2 an hour we were in a 25+ knot wind. My Dad had no idea of the weather conditions due to the big Mac’s stability While enjoying a bit to eat he commented on other boats were passed asking why they were slashing about.
Scott Jamieson— I love my Big Mac too. Let’s compare sailing tales sometime. Email me: sunsets at watercrafters dot com
Fair Winds.
Back in early 1995, I went to a boat show in Alameda, CA and got hooked on buying a Mac 65. I found the brochure and price list the other day in my library. New with all standard equipment $150,000 and with the extras I wanted, about $165,000. This was back in my bachelor days and I figured I would sail up/down the West coast. Why didn’t I get it? I listened to the naysayers about quality but the biggest issue was finding a mooring (Santa Cruz, SF Bay, Monterey?). Now with family…well it’s not going to happen but I look back with more than a little regret. I picked up a used 1990 Porsche 928 instead, which I still have. I already had a garage so I didn’t have the same “mooring” issue.
We have a very late model 65 with an enclosed cockpit, thanks to the engineering skills of the first owner, a bow thruster, very usefull + several other really usefull items not usually found in these superb boats We sailed it from the Med to Aus with no problems. In very steep, big short seas there is no equal I no of. Does she flex, yes, but it seems not to matter at all. I watched other boats and was very glad I was on this one. Sailing against an excellent Deerfoot, we easily outpaced them and we were extremely heavily loaded. Against a Beneteau 50 we were always much faster, reaching Fatu Hiva from Panama abut five days ahead, that’s really usefull, especially on these long legs. All the negative stuff helped me to buy a really great boat at a really good price. So I thank all the doom sayers. But if they could leave off when I finally have to sell her it would help.
Ian— any chance of getting your email and with you directly? I would love to get more info about how you were able to enclose the cockpit and which bowthruster was installed. If so, message me at sunsets at watercrafters com.
Ian-I would love to see some pictures of your enclosed cockpit and to know if you installed a retractable bowthruster.
Rusty, Please contact Kelly, previous message, who now has my contact details. Regards, Ian
Great comments fro MacGregor lovers ! I have owned Hull #23 for just over a year, She is the low deck, short rig. Race interior (no cabins or woodwork) I have only sailed her on the Columbia River 60 miles east of Portland Oregon. The summer winds are great 20 to 40 knots 5 days a week. She loves the wind, kind of fast for a skinny river, only 1/2 to 3/4 miles wide. still reach/run at 15 to 18 kts ! Hoping for the San Juans this summer and South to the warm climates for next winter. keep the stories coming.
Does anyone know whether the original M65 is faster than or less stiff than the M65 Pilothouse? I like the low look, and the comparative lightness of the M65, but I do not want to sacrifice much speed. Thanks.
the original m65 was 22,000 lbs is fast down wind in light wind but does twist and was built more as a coastal cruiser / racer. The mac 65 pilot house is 32,000 lbs and faster in winds over 17 +- knots, is coastal or blue water and is a rare certified ABS standard yacht that exceeds by 2 times the tensile strength in most areas.
Thanks. I do want a blue water boat and right now all I see in a range I can afford are the Odessa hull#1 which is purportedly stiffer than any of the other early M65s (is this true?) and a Pilot House in the Dominican Republic that sounds from the advert to be minimally used and minimally kept up or improved. They are listed on Yachtworld. Any thoughts?
I saw the 13o K Dominion Republic PH 65. It will want a cool 70K US to overhaul for bluewater if you are conservative and if the main engine is good. A new main engine is another 30K. If you want coastal only you could do it for 40K but again, you may need a new main engine. I did a complete over haul / re-fit on a better PH and hit 60K with out the main engine. Pretty inexpensive for a world class 65′ yacht.
You could buy the PH 65 for 120 K or less, throw in 60K plus a new main engine for 30K and you have a lot of yacht for $210,00
Best to transport it to Thialand, huge refit for your buck!
Thanks for fielding that one. I hadn’t a clue. Very interesting, and I think realistic, numbers on the PH65.
Gentlemen , I did sail the Carabian on a Mac 65 from Saint Marteen to Trinidad-Tobago ,a trip I will never forget, 45 knot winds,22 knot espeed,reaching. I would like to buy a good used one or meet a few people and have them build new ones. I am all ears
I had a Catalina 30 and was taken for a day cruise on a friends Mac 65 and fell in love. I am hoping to acquire one in the near future and would like to ask this group concerning truck-shipping a Mac 65. Has anyone had one truck shipped for any significant distance? Was a special trailer required? Any issues. Thanks Mark
Hello Mark, I bought trucked my 1990 PH Mac 65 from SanFranscisco to Vancouver Canada about 5 years ago. The cost for transport was about $7,500 US funds and packaging the mast et al at the marina was an extra $3,500 including the lift. You will probably need to take the rudder off as well. The important issue is to contract a yacht transport company that does not farm out / sub-contract the work but use their own power unit and float specifically built for hauling big yachts like the Mac 65. These type of specialty movers also come with a driver that understands load distribution. Make no mistake the Mac PH 65 is very rugged and will withstand the transport and the load bearing of the keel sits on 3.5 inches of solid layup fiberglass. Make sure you have a survey before you buy and insure it through your marine underwriter locally including transport to the value paid plus shipping and tax. On the down side I was not there for the loading and transport. I wish I had been there for the loading as your the only on who truely cares. Example: rudder removal – components and re-assembly / packaging / step down the mast and label the wiring / making sure the rigging is not kinked / roller furlings packed so they don’t kink ect.
Looking back I am still happy with my decision to transport as the vessel was not bluewater seaworthy and the process did go well. Remember, these vessels can hit a rock on the keel at 10 kts and they are OK so transport should be fine with good load distribution. Best of luck.
Thanks so much for fielding these Mac 65 questions, much appreciated.
Scott, Thank you, this is exactly the data I was requesting. I would think the Mac PH65 would have to be among the longest/largest vessels it would be possible to truck transport! Very good to know you did it successfully. Thanks Mark
When she rolled into the yard an hour early I entered a euphoric state. It was one of the great moments in my life. I had not smoked in 28 years but bummed a cig and enjoyed it intensely. Make sure you transport it to a yard with good machine shop facilities as this helps to accomplish alot in a short time even if the yard is more per day it’s worth it!
I am a Haligonian, and have enjoyed a few rum & cokes with friends in Lunenburg including Chester race week X 10.
Mark, I met the captain of Independence (www dot sailindependence dot com) and he told me he trucked his BigMac from the west coast to the east coast a couple years ago. He didn’t share any horror stories.
The previous owner of my 1990 pilothouse shipped it by 18 wheeler crossed the country twice. The mast was badly damaged in transit, which apparently some insurance paid for a replacement.
Seen a Mac ’65 for sale….. looking to relocate and live aboard around St Vincent… All pointers greatly recieved, thanks. Oh and great reading
I too am planning to relocate and living aboard for the next two years, when i came across the mac 65 as a possible live aboard. Contact me if you might want to share ideas, thoughts and or expenses.
Jordan Yacht Brokerage
We Never Underestimate Your Dreams
Macgregor 65 review: fast racing sled.
You generally hear two opposite perspectives about the construction quality of MacGregor 65’s. A solid group of knowledgeable sailors derides them as flimsy suicide sleds. As one broker told me, “You know what a MacGregor 65 is like? It is worse than a Hunter 54.” But while you hear claims of oil-canning and thru-hulls popping out, stangely owners tentatively state they have never experienced these issues. You hear the same about her sailing ability. Doubters question her windward performance while owners shrug their shoulders.
MacGregor Yacht Corporation was a fruitling of a Standford MBA project of Roger MacGregor in the early 1964’s. As an economics student, he studied the dynamics of the highly competitive boat building business. In 1964 while working at Ford Aerospace, he starting building boats as a hobby. By 1967 Mr. MacGregor was making more money from his hobby than his real job and decided to build boats full time. The yard was across from Westsail and Islander in Costa Mesa, California. He built superfast, inexpensive trailerable fiberglass sailboats branded Venture. By 1977 he was building boats under the name MacGregor. In 1984 he launched the 65-foot racing sled and built 100 hulls until 1995. At this point, the demand for a 26-foot trailerable design was so great he decided to focus on it full time. Currently in production, the 26-footer features water ballast. A 70-foot extended version of 65 MacGregor is in the works with two preliminary hulls produced as of 2010.
First Impressions You impression will depend on whether you are viewing an early or late model 65. On all, the forward cabintrunk edge and sides are black creating the illusion of a deck saloon like enclosure. On later versions, raised up another level is an actual pilothouse with windows. The pilothouse versions give a great view from the deckhouse inside through black plastic doghouse windows along with portholes on each side. She has a 63-foot waterline with only a slight bow overhang for her 65-feet length overall. The sheer is straight rounding off for a swim platform aft. It is a predatory, modern fast cruising look. There is not a touch of teak on deck with low maintenance plastic fixtures. The black anodized sloop spar comes in a 75′ race version or standard.
Looking at her line drawings, she has a fine entry, deep V-shaped forefoot, and moderately high aspect ratio keel. Her 12′ beam is carried amidships for a ultra slim length over beam ratio of 5.5. Aft is a powerful spade rudder mounted on a straight post. Combined with her low displacement ratio of 54 (cruisers range from 200 to 400), the shape leads to her extreme speeds. Her PHRF is negative 54. According to MagGregor Yachts, a 65 “averaged over 10.5 knots for 1150 miles, in generally upwind conditions, and hit top speeds of over 25 knots” in the Los Angeles to Puerto Vallarta race. They come in 6′ wing keel and 8’6″ deep fin keel versions.
Construction Despite the sniping comments, the MacGregor 65 appears to be built to pretty high standards. The 65 was one of the few American production yachts certified to meet American Bureau of Shipping Construction Standards (ABS). Mr. MacGregor notes, “Many of our buyers paid the extra amount and had the ABS actually oversee and inspect the boat’s construction.” He staunchly defends their quality. To achieve the displacment to length ratio of 54, Mr. MacGregor had to carefully build these Ultra-Light Displacement cruisers. Construction starts with a basic hull shell, 3/8” thick at its thinnest spot (aft rear topsides), and 1 ¼” at its thickest. The hull and deck are solid mat-roving hand laminated to achieve this thin and evenly faired skin. Unlike what you might expect and in contrast to the Hunter 54 construction, MacGregor used tabbed in framing structure in addition to molded liner construction. The structure includes 4 beefy full length longitudinal stringers along each side and one down the centerline. At close intervals, full transverse bulkheads of about 120 pounds each support the stringers. The molded liners do limit access to the hull.
The hull deck joint was originally of the shoebox type. Later version switch to the external flange type with 3/8″ bolts on 4″ centers, bonded with 5200, and covered with a rubber railing. Both types of joints are more often used by lower cost, high production builders because of a simplier molding process. While more accessible, the shoebox and outward flange type joints are more vulnerable to physical forces and hull flexing. The keel stepped mast is mounted on a transverse floor which is 20″ wide and 3″ thick. There are 6 floors which 3″ thick by 6″ wide thru which MacGregor attaches the keel bolts. The mast step also picks up chain plate loads. The ballast is 11,000 pounds of external lead. The proof lies in the results after 20 years of successful circumnavigations.
What To Look For The main concern would be if a 65 is an early or late model. The switch includes a change in hull deck joint from the shoebox to a more sturdy external flange type and the addition of a pilothouse. The shoebox joint is the most vulnerable type to flexing. To stiffen the joint, you can insert cabon plugs suggests one owner. “Some owners with the shoe-box joint have put carbon plugs horizontally every 6 inches in place of the original throughbolts, while filling the joint overlap with epoxy. Once that cured they glassed over the joint.” There is a steep drop in prices as you progress towards the earliest models because of what might be the root of the 65’s poor quality reputation. The earlier models without the pilothouse were 10,000 pounds lighter. Like all builders, with more experience MacGregeor learned how to perfect their techniques. The keel could be a deep fin, shoal wing, or even a rare bulb. The wing seems to be the most common from brokerage listings. The racing version is another variation. Racing versions had taller rigs and open interiors. Mostly all 65’s are the same. One of the main reasons MacGregor was able to keep the new price so reasonable is that they did not offer customization.
On Deck Forward, she has a dual bow roller. The chainlocker has deck access and is a watertight bulkhead for safety offshore. The very fine bow leads to a narrow foredeck with a lazarette fiberglass hatch. She has a nice diamond non-skid that even turns black along the soft incline to the cabintrunk. There is a track for a self tending headsail. These are mostly rigged as double headsail sloops. The rigging itself is 5/8″ wire, standard swedge fittings with turnbuckle covers like faux Navtec rod terminals. Two separate genoa tracks lead along the side decks. There is a single coachroof hatch and no dorades though 13 hatches provide ventilation. Aftmost is a small deck space and three stepped sugar scoop swim platform.
The aft cockpit is long with a shallow footwell and low, wide seating. The combings are short but ergonomically angled. The traveller is mounted on the lower step of a secure, two stepped bridgedeck which takes up room in the cockpit. This allows for traditional, endboom sheeting while sacrificing cockpit manueverability. The aft combing has a large, lazarette built in. Portside there is a plastic spin-off compartment. Two 2″ scuppers are aft by the helm. All in all this is a long, comfortable cockpit.
Down Below The interior is one of the big changes with Mr. MacGregor’s new 70-footer. The least attractive part of the 65 series is the narrow, barren, and modest accommodations. Especially, the tall rig versions have open interiors typical of a spartan racing sled which do not provide any privacy. The decor is modernist and has little of the typical teak trappings. The lack of interior finish is another way MacGregor kept production costs low. This choice produces a functional but steril atmosphere down below. The new 70’s will have luxurious interior accommodations. This upgrade will help appeal to a more cruiserly audience.
Engine From brokerage records, the engine on the 65’s could be 140 HP Yanmar Turbo, 150HP Mercury Turbo, Volvo, Pathfinder with a V-drive transmission. Access is from an aft lazarette on deck behind a watertight bulkhead. This positioning is an unusual and clever idea. If any of the thru-holes, hoses, or even prop sustain damage, the rear compartment will fill to a foot deep but the watertight bulkhead protects the rest of the boat. Standard was a 3 bladed 20″ x 14 convential prop though a Maxi-prop is an excellent upgrade to increase speed.
Underway One of the more divisive questions about the MacGregor 65 is her upwind performance. Clearly, she is a great downwind sailing machine, surfing down waves. But, her light displacement leads to accusations of a choppy ride windward. Experienced owners suggest otherwise. The narrow entry and a deep V-shaped forefoot allows her to slice through waves. The trade-off is a rather wet ride with a steady stream of water over the foredeck although the cockpit is aftmost so the spray rarely reaches the cockpit. The long length means less hobby horsing too. A valid criticism relates to her tenderness upwind. Because of the narrow hull line, you will need to reef sooner than in a beamier boat.
Conclusion MacGregors retail for between $100,000 to $200,000 with a sharp drop off for the 1980’s versions. The main attraction is her performance. Clearly, this 65-footer is one of the fastest production yachts ever built. The safety and poor construction concerns do not seem to be based on fact or experience. Likewise, the sailing concerns need to be refocused towards her slight tenderness upwind. Of all the criticisims, the most valid are about her narrow and sterile accommodations, arguably the worst part of the design for long distance cruising.
4 Replies to “MacGregor 65 Review: Fast Racing Sled”
I have found that the negative comments about this boat are not reality based, one fellow claims one of these split down the middle longitudinally , NOT likely based on the way the hulls are layed up.
I have scoured the internet reading about these boats recently-conclusion= naysayers are full of BS !!
65 owners and delivery skippers don’t have any negitive comments that I can find.
I want one of these and I think they are well built. ( > 1990 > up )
Naysayers go get a Santana 22 or cal 20!! if you don’t already own one!!!
I have found that the negative comments about this boat are not reality based,one fellow claims one of these split down the middle longitudinally , NOT likelybased on the way the hulls are layed up. +1
The 26m, which is currently in production is not a swing keel, it’s a dagger board configuration.
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Discussions relating to the MacGregor line of trailerable sailboats
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MacGregor 65
Post by Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL » Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:33 am
Re: MacGregor 65
Post by Hamin' X » Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:15 am
Post by Russ » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:53 pm
Post by Jimmyt » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:13 pm
Russ wrote: ↑ Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:53 pm Does it come with a trailer?
Post by Tomfoolery » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:30 pm
Post by BOAT » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:02 am
Post by Hamin' X » Sat Mar 21, 2020 1:10 am
Tomfoolery wrote: ↑ Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:30 pm I couldn’t find the listing. Gotta link?
Post by kurz » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:06 pm
Post by Jimmyt » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:38 pm
Post by BOAT » Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:07 pm
Post by kurz » Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am
Post by Russ » Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:11 pm
Located in Carolina Beach, North Carolina, this 65-foot used MacGregor 65 is a great pilothosue sailboat. Macgregor boats are affordable designed sailing vessels that are built to allow easy towing on a trailer.
Post by Bill at BOATS 4 SAIL » Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:38 am
Post by BOAT » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:01 pm
kurz wrote: ↑ Sun Mar 22, 2020 11:50 am BOAT, I believe all what you say and it sounds logicall. But why these boats are not standard in circumnavigations? Save, fast, comfort, cheap... ?
Post by kurz » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:17 pm
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Macgregor 65
- Thread starter Mike van der stee
- Start date Aug 16, 2009
- Macgregor Owner Forums
- Ask A Macgregor Owner
Mike van der stee
Hello, I have a few questions for you as enthousiastic Macgregor 65' owners. I'm from Holland (europe) and I have never seen a Macgregor 65'overhere. Really beatifull yachts. Especially the latest version from 1987 - 1995? I saw a movie on Utube from Mystic....wohh what a boat!!! (I'm in love) But these are a little bit too expensive for me. Does anybody have information about the first version. I saw one on the internet for sale on the British Virgin Islands (yachtworld.com). It is a 1985 version with damage (broken mast and some hull damage. Asking price 50.000 US$ (VAT Paid). I think there's besides the reparation of the hull need of a new main and headsail. 1.Is that a good price or too much? The cost of transport to Holland is about 18.000 - 20.000 US$ I guess. 2.Does anybode know what the draft is? Is that about 6' or 9' because here in Holland it is better too choose the short one 6'. 3. How does the early type Macgregor sail (and under engine power)? This one without pilot/dog house still looks great. The long lines......great. Thank you in advance for any kind of information of the boat. Kind regards, Mike
Paul Brinkley
Mike, draft is 6' for a 65, according to the Boat Info. Go to the "Boat Info" in the header at the top of this page and choose "65" for the model and "Specifications". Not much info available, but that is where you'll find it. -Paul
mikevanderstee
Paul Brinkley said: Mike, draft is 6' for a 65, according to the Boat Info. Go to the "Boat Info" in the header at the top of this page and choose "65" for the model and "Specifications". Not much info available, but that is where you'll find it. -Paul Click to expand
There are some specs and a list of owners you could probably contact here on the forum - Mac65
Justin_NSA said: There are some specs and a list of owners you could probably contact here on the forum - Mac65 Click to expand
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Edwards Yacht Sales
- 866.365.0706
1995 MacGregor Wing Keel Pilothouse Cutter
- Saint Augustine, FL, US
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NEWEST AND NICEST ON THE MARKET, NEW ENGINE, ONLY ONE ON MARKET WITH DRAFT AND MAST HEIGHT FOR THE ICW, PRICED TO SELL. MAKE AN OFFER ! "Sea Ya II" is one if the last of this revolutionary design ever built, has the most upgrades on the market, and is a sailing machine! Reaches speeds up to 18 knots--incredible for a monohull!!! She's a rare WKII (wing keel) version of the 65' with a 64' mast (ICW friendly!) and a 6' draft (Bahamas friendly!).
The MacGregor 65 is arguably the fastest production mono-hull ever built. She will satisfy both the cruiser and the racing sailor, due to the high level of comfort and intelligent design of her interior combined with the cutting-edge features that make her fly over the water. These were well built yachts with a USCG rated +1A stability rating. They were built with 1.5 inch solid fiberglass bulkheads and all solid glass construction with no coring. Her 12 foot beam provides for spacious living quarters below, and she has been finished out luxuriously.
Over an 8 year period, MacGregor 65 Corporation built 100 of these magnificent yachts. During its production run, it was the best selling large yacht in the history of sailing. The MacGregor 65 holds many long distance sailing records. It was also one of the finest long-distance cruising yachts ever built.
"Sea Ya II" has been engineered with many up-grades and extras such as a bow thruster and a fuel efficiency booster that cuts fuel consumption in half!
- NEWLY REPOWERED with rebuilt Nanni Diesel engine in 2017--under 100 hours!
- Roomy pilothouse version
- Only Macgregor 65 with bow thruster (NEW 2016)
- Never chartered
- Standing Rigging replaced in 2013
- She has 2 air conditioning systems
- 2 refrigerators and a deep freezer
- 3 electric winches--2 Lewmar 54 and 1 Harken 46
- 6 foot draft, wing keel
- Fresh bottom paint in 2015
- ICW friendly bridge clearance
- 8.5 KW generator
- In Boom furling Mainsail
- Navtech Hydraulic Back stay and Vang
- 1 Large HD custom Traveler
- 2 12 volt Vacuflush toilets
- 1 holding tank
- 1 New propane cook stove with oven
- 1 Microwave oven
- 2 refrigerators and 1 deep freezer
- 2 Racor 500 filters
- 250 Gal. fuel tank
- 6 Bilge pumps
- Elec. Anchor windlass (Lewmar)
- Magna Inverter/Batt. Charger
- Bimini top and custom Lexan Dodger
- Custom Dinghy Davits
- Flat screen TV with antenna and DVD player
- 4 Solar vent fans
- 1 Life sling
- 1 Delta 45 anchor 1 Fortress Anchor
- 2 custom large handrails
- Custom Cockpit Cushions
- Custom Cockpit Table
- Custom Interior with many mirrors
- New Water Heater
- Lightening Protection No Strike system
Owners' Notes: We bought the sailboat in June 1999 in Ft. Lauderdale, FL. Since that time we have spent about 6 months a year living on Sea Ya II. Our travels: Key West to Chesapeake Bay in the state of Maryland, Bahamas, Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico, Leeward and Windward Caribbean Islands south to Trinidad (where we were based for four years), Venezuela's Puerto la Cruz, Venezuela's out islands, Bonaire and Curacao. We sailed back to Ft. Lauderdale in May 2008.
Specifications
Descriptions, basic information, dimensions & weight, tank capacities, accommodations.
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Entering the companionway, you have the navigation station and lower helm and aft head to starboard. There is a spacious galley along the port side with a nice double sink and loads of counter space. The large aft cabin has a center line berth with lots of room to walk around and seating too. Moving forward from the galley is the salon with dinette settee and lockers and cabinets for storage. Forward to port are 2 bunk berths that can be used for storage as well and to starboard a large head with shower stall. The Vee Berth is forward with a large bed and ample storage. The interior is done in gray, black, silver and mirrors giving a modern look to this well-thought-out cruiser. The galley has storage lockers with plastic bins on shelves to keep provisions and 2 side opening refrigerators and a deep freezer that opens from the top.
The cockpit is large and comfortable with a folding table and a larger table for guests. The hand rail that runs from the cockpit to the bow is large and strong for safety on deck. She is equipped with large and strong davits and a swim platform stern like a catamaran.
THIS VESSEL HAS NEVER BEEN CHARTERED
Most governments require rating bureau certification on large yachts. The ABS certification widens the market for the MacGregor 65. The MacGregor 65 is also eligible for the United States Coast Guard certification, allowing the commercial use of the boat for up to 44 passengers. MacGregor Inc. improved the boat's strength dramatically in 1992 by making major design changes.
Several projects involved improving the transverse and longitudinal hull strength. Increasing hull section thickness, adding seven continuous (meaning that the bond is without gaps) bulkheads along with the continuous longitudinal stringers significantly improves the boat's integrity.
The deck is secured to the hull with stainless bolts on six inch centers adding 5200 sealant 100 percent of the circumference insuring a strong and water tight bond. "Sea Ya II," a 1994 MacGregor 65 (hull is 1994, vessel was commissioned in 1995) 0is built to exceed American Bureau of Shipping fiberglass construction requirements with an ABS +A1 classification. ABS approves the structural plan of the boat and specifies hull thickness, bulkhead (transverse) thickness, stringer size and material strength requirements.
ABS states: "In general, the hull is to be longitudinally framed with the deck and shell longitudinals supported by transverse wed rings, transverse bulkhead or a combination of both...hard spots are to be avoided..."
ABS Requirement MacGregor Actual Tensile Strength 18,000 psi 29,300 psi
Tensile Modulus 1,100,000 1,600,000
Shear Strength 11,000 psi 14,340 psi
Compressive Strength 17.000 psi 34,030 psi
Compressive Modulus 1mil 1,9mil
Flexural Strength 25,000 psi 52,860 psi
Flexural Modulus 1,100,000 1,700,
"Sea Ya II" was on the market previously at $300,000 . Her owners have literally just knocked over $100,000 off the price because they now own another boat and are ready to go cruising again. She has been relocated from Ft. Lauderdale to St. Augustine, and is stored at the St. Augustine Marine Center where you can see her impressive form out of the water. Her design is very unique--she is low-displacement and literally skims across the water. These were very revolutionary boats and nothing since has quite replaced them in speed and style.
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This, the first, more racing/performance oriented version of the MACGREGOR 65 sold well considering it's size. The later, pilot house version, was even more popular, with over 70 sold.
Macgregor 65 is a 64′ 11″ / 19.8 m monohull sailboat designed by Roger MacGregor and built by Macgregor Yacht Corp between 1984 and 1987.
The Macgregor 65 is an ultralight sailboat which is a very high performer. It is very stable / stiff and has an excellent righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a cruiser racer.
The MACGREGOR 65, with more than 100 sold, was one of the most successful boats of this size ever built. Later on, the only model in production was the extremely popular MACGREGOR 26M, a 26-foot (7.9 m) trailerable sailboat that can except a large outboard motor makin it capable of relatively higher speeds under power.
The MacGregor 65 Pilothouse is a fast racing sailboat for Broker's Best. One is currently available from Bristol Yachts Northwest.
SAILING PERFORMANCE: The MacGregor 65 is the fastest production cruising sailboat built, including even the large cruising catamarans. The relatively small, easily handled sailplan Will drive the boat at speeds that no Other cruising boat, and very few large racing machines, can match.
The Macgregor 65 pilot house is an ultralight sailboat which is a high performer. It is stable / stiff and has an excellent righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a fast cruiser. The fuel capacity is excellent. There is an excellent water supply range.
Location: SF Bay and Jacksonville FL. Boat: Macgregor 26M in SF bay, Bayliner 175BR in JAX FL. Posts: 40. Re: Review of the Macgregor 65. I visited the factory about a year ago, right after Roger closed it. I met Roger and went sailing on a 26M with Mike Inmon. We took the 26M from Roger's house, where a 65 or 70 was also docked.
Macgregor 65 Pilot House is a 64′ 11″ / 19.8 m monohull sailboat designed by Roger MacGregor and built by Macgregor Yacht Corp between 1988 and 1995.
MacGregor Sailboats. Extensive database of new and used 65' MacGregor Sailboats for sale.
The MacGregor is directionally very stable at speed and does not 'tow' a quarter wave like many older heavy displacement sailboats. Early reefing and minimal sail are the key to comfortably sailing the Mac 65 in a strong wind. As long as this rule is followed, the boat is very steady due to the long waterline and easily driven hull design.
The yard was across from Westsail and Islander in Costa Mesa, California. He built superfast, inexpensive trailerable fiberglass sailboats branded Venture. By 1977 he was building boats under the name MacGregor. In 1984 he launched the 65-foot racing sled and built 100 hulls until 1995.
Find MacGregor Cruiser 65 Pilot House boats for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of MacGregor boats to choose from.
Located in Carolina Beach, North Carolina, this 65-foot used MacGregor 65 is a great pilothosue sailboat. Macgregor boats are affordable designed sailing vessels that are built to allow easy towing on a trailer.
707. Macgregor 26S Lucama, NC. Aug 16, 2009. #2. Mike, draft is 6' for a 65, according to the Boat Info. Go to the "Boat Info" in the header at the top of this page and choose "65" for the model and "Specifications". Not much info available, but that is where you'll find it. -Paul. M.
The MacGregor 65 holds many long distance sailing records. It was also one of the finest long-distance cruising yachts ever built. "Sea Ya II" has been engineered with many up-grades and extras such as a bow thruster and a fuel efficiency booster that cuts fuel consumption in half! NEWLY REPOWERED with rebuilt Nanni Diesel engine in 2017--under ...
MacGregor 65. I was talking with kenomac. This is the only yacht that caught my attention in the >50 foot range. I like different. Seems like its won everything it set out to win. Speed is huge, comfort, safety, cheap to run and maintain. One for sale in the U.K. at @ $160K.
Macgregor 65 detailed characteristics and performance ratios. 1 / 1 - score 100% The Macgregor 65 is a 65.0ft cutter designed by Roger MacGregor and built in fiberglass by Macgregor Yacht Corp between 1984 and 1987.
View a wide selection of Macgregor 65 for sale in your area, explore detailed information, photos, price and find your next boat on DailyBoats.com
Find Macgregor Yachts for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of Macgregor Yachts to choose from.
Find Sail MacGregor 65 boats for sale in your area & across the world on YachtWorld. Offering the best selection of MacGregor boats to choose from.
Find MacGregor 65 boats for sale near you, including boat prices, photos, and more. Locate MacGregor boat dealers and find your boat at Boat Trader!