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- Sailboat Guide
Thistle is a 16 ′ 11 ″ / 5.2 m monohull sailboat designed by Gordon K. (Sandy) Douglass and built by Schock W.D., Douglass & McLeod, and Clark Boat Company starting in 1945.
Rig and Sails
Auxilary power, accomodations, calculations.
The theoretical maximum speed that a displacement hull can move efficiently through the water is determined by it's waterline length and displacement. It may be unable to reach this speed if the boat is underpowered or heavily loaded, though it may exceed this speed given enough power. Read more.
Classic hull speed formula:
Hull Speed = 1.34 x √LWL
Max Speed/Length ratio = 8.26 ÷ Displacement/Length ratio .311 Hull Speed = Max Speed/Length ratio x √LWL
Sail Area / Displacement Ratio
A measure of the power of the sails relative to the weight of the boat. The higher the number, the higher the performance, but the harder the boat will be to handle. This ratio is a "non-dimensional" value that facilitates comparisons between boats of different types and sizes. Read more.
SA/D = SA ÷ (D ÷ 64) 2/3
- SA : Sail area in square feet, derived by adding the mainsail area to 100% of the foretriangle area (the lateral area above the deck between the mast and the forestay).
- D : Displacement in pounds.
Ballast / Displacement Ratio
A measure of the stability of a boat's hull that suggests how well a monohull will stand up to its sails. The ballast displacement ratio indicates how much of the weight of a boat is placed for maximum stability against capsizing and is an indicator of stiffness and resistance to capsize.
Ballast / Displacement * 100
Displacement / Length Ratio
A measure of the weight of the boat relative to it's length at the waterline. The higher a boat’s D/L ratio, the more easily it will carry a load and the more comfortable its motion will be. The lower a boat's ratio is, the less power it takes to drive the boat to its nominal hull speed or beyond. Read more.
D/L = (D ÷ 2240) ÷ (0.01 x LWL)³
- D: Displacement of the boat in pounds.
- LWL: Waterline length in feet
Comfort Ratio
This ratio assess how quickly and abruptly a boat’s hull reacts to waves in a significant seaway, these being the elements of a boat’s motion most likely to cause seasickness. Read more.
Comfort ratio = D ÷ (.65 x (.7 LWL + .3 LOA) x Beam 1.33 )
- D: Displacement of the boat in pounds
- LOA: Length overall in feet
- Beam: Width of boat at the widest point in feet
Capsize Screening Formula
This formula attempts to indicate whether a given boat might be too wide and light to readily right itself after being overturned in extreme conditions. Read more.
CSV = Beam ÷ ³√(D / 64)
Spin area: 220 sq ft.
Other builders:
Northwest One Design
Great Midwest Yacht Company Doug Laber Box 364 140 E Granville Street Sunbury, OH 43074 740-965-4511
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About the Thistle
The Thistle is a high performance one design racing sailboat that is generally sailed with a three person crew. The Thistle Class Association is recognized as one of the largest and best one-design classes in the country.
Thistle fleets are located throughout the US and welcome new and experienced sailors. Fleet members are happy to take new Thistle sailors out sailing and help get new boat owners up to speed. Joining a fleet and crewing is an excellent way to get started in the Thistle. Instructional DVD’s also help sailors get up to speed.
The TCA publishes a top-notch magazine, the Bagpipe, which not only reports on all the class news, but often includes rigging and go-fast tips.
The class culture makes this Thistle unique. The competitive design and caliber of sailors attracts top sailors. The class also enjoys family camaraderie and often teams are comprised of family members. The Thistle is ideal for junior sailors and many regattas encourage youth participation with reduced fees for junior members.
Designed by Sandy Douglass, the Thistle debuted in 1945. The sail plan consists of a main, jib, and spinnaker. The boat planes easily in 10-12 knots of breeze yet will also glide effortlessly in light air. The class firmly believes in the one-design principles thus keeping all boats competitive.
New boats are available from the class-approved builder, Great Midwest Yacht Company. Used boats can be found at a variety of price points. The best places to find used boats include the “Classifieds” page here .
The Thistle Class Association is a proud member of US SAILING.
Class Information:
Class Contact: Joy Martin
Class Contact Email: [email protected]
Class Contact Phone: 315-945-4571
Class Website: ThistleClass.com
Social Media: Facebook | Twitter
Class Specs
LOA: 17 ft.
Beam: 6 ft.
Draft (up/dn): 6 ft. / 4 ft. 6 in.
Weight: 515 lbs.
Sail Area (main/jib): 191 sq. ft.
Sail Area (spib): 220 sq. ft.
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One Man’s Mistake is Another Man’s Treasure
By Fritz Horton, Lake Champlain Chapter
The Thistle Class sailing dinghy was designed in 1945 by Gordon (“Sandy”) Douglass to reach the post-war market yearning for inexpensive, high-performance one design boats. The design was patterned after then-current versions of the International 14 Class dinghies, in which Douglass had won a bronze medal in the ‘36 Olympic Games. On a trailer, like the Snipe and Lightning, the boat offered young families ready access to the water from their suburban homes. With her mast stepped on the thwart instead of on the keel, the Thistle was a sure winner of the then-popular “trailer-to-trailer” races, where the race started and ended with the boats snug on their trailers at the launching ramp!
The Thistle fully rigged is light (515 lb.) due to her cold-molded plywood construction. The hull, at approximately 300 lb., consists of five laminations of 1/16” mahogany, stapled and glued together and braced with gratings, thwarts and seats to yield a surprisingly open but very rigid structure.
“Ouisquaebae” would have been Thistle #792 in 1952 if the bare hull had not been set aside by its builder, Douglass and McDleod, to serve as the plug for the new fiberglass designs. For that role, she was faired, templated, finished with lacquer and mounted on movable supports at stem and stern to allow her to be rotated 180 to drop the fiberglass female molds after curing. Fiberglass Thistles were then molded by Douglass & McCleod and other builders using the female molds from “Quisquaebae”. She is truly the “mother” of all modern fiberglass Thistles.
Fritz Horton, an architect in Shelburne, Vermont, bought the boat in 1973 from John Riley, who, apparently by mistake, was allowed to purchase the hull from Douglass & McCleod in 1969. Despite Ray McCleod’s pleas to return the “Class Plug”, Riley refused. The Class then had a problem. It had lost something akin to the U.S. Constitution – the basis for measuring any suspected changes to the benchmark hull by its builders. Also, because her original hull number (792) had been assigned to another boat after she was set aside for use as a mold, the Thistle Class had to assign her the next highest current registration number, which at that time was #3184. Currently, no wooden Thistle with a higher registration number exists.
After removing enough of the finish to determine the outer veneer had been sanded through in several places, Fritz removed the outer 1/16” with a router and rasp, replaced it with sapele and finished the boat in Vermont over a two-year period, completing the process in 1978.
16 Comments
I love this story! Thank you for featuring a sailboat! What a beautiful boat and with such a unique history! Will you bring her to the 2019 International at Alex Bay? I would LOVE to see this boat in person. What is the story behind her name?
Due to the age of your Thistle I wonder if the proper name for the construction type would be hot molded vs. cold molded? The older Thistles, like #16, were hot molded using thin veneers, glue, and heat in an oven or thick rubber bag to bake the boat until the glues and veneers cured. Cold molded construction uses modern epoxy resins for the binder of the veneers and do not require heat to cure.
Yes, That seems a common mistake. Many are stating them to be Cold, when actually Hot Molded was a fairly New Method of construction in the 40s. Cold Molding did not begin until new glues had been developed after D&M have switched over to Fiberglass in the 60s. I read all the time the wonder of how well cold molding will hold up over the long run. Still has yet to be known its longevity.
Fritz, great boat. I remember you bringing her to Lake George on occasion, we were all enamored of the ‘bright-finished’ Thistle in the fleet. I think I remember a very pretty spinnaker as well…
My dad bought a Thistle, # 299, at the NY Boat Show, I think in 1948-49, and we sailed and raced it at Lk Hopatcong, NJ for many years. It had a white hull and was a joy to sail. Many years later, when my dad was no longer able to sail he gave the Thistle to my brother who took it to Larchmont YC and then to Riverhead NY. Then he had it restored and he gave it to the Lake Hopatcong YC to be used for sailing instruction. A nice story of # 299 with a good ending. Separately, my Dad owned a ’39 Barrel Back CC which he gave to me 35 years ago. It is at Grandview LK in Indiana and has been restored twice, most recently by Motor Boat Garage in Cincinnati. Bob Orben 812-350-9046
Beautiful boats – both.
Fritz I’m taken with Shannon Knight’s enthusiasm for showing the boat at A Bay. Any plan to do so? Gene
Fritz, You mentioned D&M produced International 14’s in your story. I owned #256 during the 1950’s as a teenager. I’m wondering if any one knows where it is or what happened to it. Bill Truex. [email protected] on Lake Champlain.
Wonderful to see this story shared with many wood boat enthusiasts. I’ve known Fritz and the story of his boat for about forty years. I’ve sailed with him and against him in many races. He is impossible to beat.
We once took Ouisquaebae to a regatta at Lake Hopatcong and got a lot of raised eyebrows with sail number 3184 on a Woodie. Fritz might have had to produce his Thistle registration to be allowed to sail. The competition quickly learned that this was a hot boat, not another worn out old Woodie.
Something seems a little screwy in the story. I have 1028 built in 1958 and it certainly is not the last of the Woodies by D&M. I have read that D&M were one of the first to start using fiberglass hulls but those did not come out until 1960s. Why set aside in 1952 boat for use as the mold for fiberglassing when fiberglass was probably not a known product? Likely you have your numbers wrong. I don’t know the final woodie number But maybe 1792 is more like the number and not 792. 792 does seem to have been around 1952 production. Yup, one mans mistake is another mans treasure. Seems you didn’t get the treasure, but got handed a line of bull
As pointed out above, These were all Hot Molded. Cold did not come out until after D&M switched to Fiberglass,
Sandy Douglas went on to design and market the “Flying Scot” in the late 1950’s, early 1960’s. Very popular 19 foot sailboat in that time. Had an opportunity to meet him when he was delivering one to a camp I worked at in eastern North Carolina
Fritz, Remember sailing in your great boat as crew. Have followed your families career since then. If you get back to LG, give me a call. I think I can come up with the scotch matching your beloved name.
Thistles were a large class in the weekly races on Lake Hopatcong in NJ years ago. I enjoyed sitting on my porch watching them round the buoy at Henderson Cove and hoisting their colorful spinnakers for the downwind run back to the yacht club.
I rescued 1590 around 12 years ago. The restoration process took a lot longer than expected but got a lot of help from Midwestern yacht company. She’s a lot faster than a flying scot, and a lot more challenging on busy waters. I don’t sail her often though, but she is a beautiful boat. Loved your article
My family had Thistle #24 in the early 1960’s, sold it around 1967 after putting fiberglass to its’ bottom. Sailed Lake St. Claire in Michigan. Always wondered what became of her. [email protected]
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November 30, 1999 by Sail1Design Editor Leave a Comment
The Thistle is a high performance racing dinghy, also used for day sailing, popular in the United States. The Thistle was designed in 1945 by Gordon K. (Sandy) Douglass.
The Thistle Class Association, with fleets across the country, holds local, regional, and national regattas throughout the year. All Thistles are built to the same lines by authorized builders. Class rules limit innovations in rigging, restrict sail purchases, and prohibit electronic navigation gear. Old and new boats are evenly matched, with the owner of Thistle number 1 winning the national championship in 1990.
Thistle hulls are relatively light for their size, doing away with decking and spray protection to save weight. The sail plan is larger for the boat’s weight than in many other dinghies, making Thistles good light wind performers. Their hulls have wide flat bottoms, allowing the boats to plane in winds of 15 to 20 knots. The sail plan is large for a boat of this size, consisting of a marconi rig with a main, jib, and symmetrical spinnaker. Thistle #1 won the Lake Erie Districts in 2013!
Thistles are generally raced with a three person crew. A skipper, a middle, and a forward person. The optimal total crew weight is generally 450 lb to 480 lb (US) depending on wind. The class is generally family friendly, though experienced sailors will still be challenged at the higher levels of competition.
The Thistle is used as the baseline for the U.S. version of the Portsmouth yardstick system for handicapping small boats in mixed-class fleets.
loa 17’ beam 6’ sail area 191 ft² spinnaker area 220 ft² hull weight 515 lbs. crew 3 # of boats built 4,000 active US fleets
AL, AR, AZ, CA, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, IN, KS, KY, LA, MA, MI, MO, MT, NC, NJ, NY, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, TN, TX, VA, WA
Class website: http://www.thistleclass.com/
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About the Competition
While some people use their Thistle as a daysailer, the boat loves to be raced. It’s fast, quick to plane, and built to slice through waves.
Where Can I Find Active Thistle Racing?
The Thistle Class is one of the largest one-design classes in the country. There are more than 50 active Thistle fleets across the US ( find one near you! ). Thistles age extremely well, so well cared-for older boats can be just as fast as new boats. Our one-design rules make sure that racing proves the quality of the sailor rather than the money invested in the boat.
Thistle Fleet Racing
Getting hooked up with a fleet is an excellent way to get started in the Thistle. Fleet members will be happy to take you sailing or get you up to speed if you decide to buy a boat. A fleet near you might have a weeknight or weekend series.
Thistle Regattas
You’ll find a well-attended local and regional regatta circuit in many areas (check out upcoming Thistle regattas ). On a national level, we hold a summertime National Championship that rotates locations and two Midwinter regattas – San Diego, California in February and St. Petersburg, Florida in March.
What can I expect at a Thistle regatta?
Fun and camaraderie.
Looking for fun people to sail with and against? This is your boat. When you sail a Thistle, you’ll be part of a welcoming community. We love racing against each other, but we have as much fun on shore as we do on the water.
“The best part about the Thistle Class is how it balances great talent and competition with camaraderie, friendliness, and good times. I like being in serious races against seriously good sailors and then coming together as friends on shore to discuss the day’s races. Also, the boat is just flat-out fun.”
– Will, age 30
Stiff Competition
Thistles aren’t the hot new boat, but there’s a reason the class has been strong for 75 years. The boat’s faster than you think. And the racing? Top notch. Whether you’re sailing in big fleets or small, on open water or on small inland lakes, you’ll find talented sailors.
Thistles sail as a Corinthian class, which means you won’t be sailing against boats with paid crew members (or a paid driver).
And A Helping Hand
One of the unique things about Thistle sailors is their willingness to share tips and tricks. Whether it’s official, impromptu or casual talk around the boat, someone’s always happy to help you improve.
- Coach TCA class at Midwinters East (St. Petersburg, Florida)
- Expert roundtables at our Nationals and Midwinters regattas
- Clinics the day before many major events
- Webinars sharing tips from top Thistlers
- Conversations with the people around you about!
Here’s What People Say About Why They Sail Thistles:
Planning to skipper a fleet race or regatta?
Make sure you’re a TCA member first. Only active-level TCA members are permitted to skipper in races where the Thistle is sailed as a one-design boat. The boat you’re sailing needs to be registered and dues-paid before the event.
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COMMENTS
Learn about the Thistle, a high-performance one-design racing sailboat that is fast, fun and affordable. Find out how to buy, sail and join the Thistle community.
The Thistle is a recreational sailboat, with the earlier production models made from molded plywood and the more recent models built predominantly of fiberglass, with wood structural members and trim. The seats are a fiberglass-sandwich construction, and provide built-in flotation. It has a fractional sloop rig with aluminum spars and three ...
Here are 5 things to check before buying an older Thistle sailboat. Thistles can generally be found for $2,000 - $15,000 depending on their age, condition, rigging, etc. Purchasing a new Thistle will cost between $20,000 - $25,000 for an all-up boat ready to sail. ( Read more about the boat .) Before purchasing a Thistle, you will want to ...
Fiberglass thistle, stored indoors. Hull number 1504. Boat is in good shape, recently re-done wood, with all needed equipment. 2 rudders included (one a "pop-up" rudder for sailing in shallow water). Trailer is large and well maintained, very good tires, lights replaced with LEDs and trailer rewired.
Learn about the Thistle, a fun and fast one design sailboat that offers great sailing and friendly competition. Find a fleet near you, join or renew the class, and check out the latest regatta calendar and news.
Thistle is a classic centerboard sloop sailboat designed by Gordon K. (Sandy) Douglass and built by several companies since 1945. Learn about its history, features, performance, and specifications on Sailboat Guide.
The Thistle Class has been around since 1945 when Sandy Douglass introduced his new one-design sailboat and amazed the naysayers. The class is still growing and active; you can find Thistles - and Thistlers (that's what we call ourselves) - all across the country. We have as much fun on shore together as we do racing.
Learn about the Thistle, a high performance one design sailboat that is sailed with a three person crew. Find out how to join a fleet, get instructional tips, and see class specifications and contact information.
The Thistle Class sailing dinghy was designed in 1945 by Gordon ("Sandy") Douglass to reach the post-war market yearning for inexpensive, high-performance one design boats. The design was patterned after then-current versions of the International 14 Class dinghies, in which Douglass had won a bronze medal in the '36 Olympic Games. ...
The Thistle is a beautiful, high performance racing dingy that combines grace with speed. Designed in 1945, the boat and class continue to thrive and are raced by dedicated enthusiasts and enjoyed by families alike. The boat has a planing hull and will plane in 10-12 knots of breeze but it also moves well in light winds and will outperform many ...
This makes the boat an almost ideal choice for the Chesapeake region. The Thistle is a strict one-design class, and it can truly be said that old and new boats perform evenly. The 44-year-old Thistle #1 won the National Championship in 1990, followed by a 15-year-old boat, with a new boat in third place.
The Thistle is a high performance racing dinghy, also used for day sailing, popular in the United States. The Thistle was designed in 1945 by Gordon K. (Sandy) Douglass. The Thistle Class Association, with fleets across the country, holds local, regional, and national regattas throughout the year. All Thistles are built to the same lines by ...
Main - the big, white sail; it's connected to the mast and the boom. Jib - the small, white sail at the front. Spinnaker - the third sail, often colorful. AKA chute, spin, kite. Line - when a rope is on a boat, you call it a line. Sheet - a line (rope) that controls a sail.
Sailboat designer and builder. Gordon K. "Sandy" Douglass (October 22, 1904 - February 12, 1992) was an American racer, designer, and builder of sailing dinghies. Two of his designs, the Thistle and the Flying Scot, are among the most popular one design racing classes in the United States. The Flying Scot was inducted into the American ...
Learn about the THISTLE, a fractional sloop centerboard dinghy designed by Sandy Douglass and built since 1945. Find sailboat specifications, calculations, links, associations and forum topics for this class.
The Thistle Class is one of the largest one-design classes in the country. There are more than 50 active Thistle fleets across the US (find one near you!Thistles age extremely well, so well cared-for older boats can be just as fast as new boats. Our one-design rules make sure that racing proves the quality of the sailor rather than the money invested in the boat.
Thistle preowned sailboats for sale by owner. Thistle used sailboats for sale by owner.
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A boat with a BN of 1.6 or greater is a boat that will be reefed often in offshore cruising. Derek Harvey, "Multihulls for Cruising and Racing", International Marine, Camden, Maine, 1991, states that a BN of 1 is generally accepted as the dividing line between so-called slow and fast multihulls.
About Us. Baird Maritime, launched in 1978, is one of the world's premier maritime publishing houses.. The company produces the leading maritime new portal BairdMaritime.com, home of the world famous Work Boat World, Fishing Boat World, Ship World, Ausmarine, and Commercial Mariner sub-sites, and the industry-leading ship brokerage platforms WorkBoatWorld.com and ShipWorld.com.
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